by the fans for the fans

continued from last post
zen wrote

Does the definition of a Robotech fan mean that there is no room for criticism of Harmony Gold‘s management of the franchise? Just accept things and not ask/suggest improvement?

Robotech fan can mean anything!
we are free to say what can be improved! yes
but to say "I" can do better! thats something that needs to be proven on! can you draw better? can you write a better story?
can you manage a franshize with thousands of fans who will eat you apart if you fail?! have you ever worked on something better? have you drawn something better? what have you accoplished in your life that better than there work!
but this is my opinion

zen

The Robotech fans who are critical of Harmony Gold….does this disqualify them as fans?

nope but it would be nice for them the fan who is critical to show something thats better than them! prove me wrong! im not one sided on this I had my review on shadow chronicles, I said what I disliked on it, even starwars ep1 was bad but im not going around moaning everyday on how much it sucks, that would be annoying

zen cont.

Does the criticism of Harmony Gold automatically define it as “hate”?

no and yes
it depends on how you go about it!

Is Harmony Gold above criticism?
nope
are my answers?

more of zen

Who's this "our" that Robotechx.com belongs to?....people who just follow the HG "company line" or ALL fans to express their opinions about the franchise?

the fans who love Robotech as in the series! what got us to become fans! what are you a fan of sen?! the series or HG?

TOPIC: What are you a fan off?
the Animation or the Companies? and why?

for me the Animation
on eitherside Macross or Robotech
I like the stories! my top faves go like this
Macross plus
Robotech: do to the voice acting and the music
sdf macross do to it not being censord and the music
DYRL music the best!
Souther Cross
and mospeda!

Robotech fan can mean anything!
we are free to say what can be improved! yes
but to say "I" can do better! thats something that needs to be proven on! can you draw better? can you write a better story?

What does saying you can do better have to do with art? There's more to a franchise than art.
And yes, I know a lot of people who can write better stories, viper's Destroids Last Dance for example.

can you manage a franshize with thousands of fans who will eat you apart if you fail?!

No, you cannot please everyone, but asking for feedback and finding out what your fans would like to see, shouldn't be a problem. And this requires listening to all your fans, not just the supporters.

have you ever worked on something better? have you drawn something better? what have you accoplished in your life that better than there work!
but this is my opinion

While it is your opinion, I respect that however I don't believe their work is better than anyone elses. In fact I believe the artwork from the original shows is better looking but that's just my opinion.

nope but it would be nice for them the fan who is critical to show something thats better than them!

We have ideas they could use to help the franchise, but they don't listen so what's the point?

prove me wrong!

Okay, how would you like the option of having any kind of robotech merchandise you wanted? I'd take on that and listen to what the fans wanted.

im not one sided on this I had my review on shadow chronicles, I said what I disliked on it, even starwars ep1 was bad but im not going around moaning everyday on how much it sucks, that would be annoying

No one is saying it sucks until the subject is brought up, no one is just intentionally starting fights over it.

no and yes
it depends on how you go about it!

Really? Much of what's been said was harmless as a fly, yet it still managed to offend everyone.

Is Harmony Gold above criticism?
nope
are my answers?

Nope

TOPIC: What are you a fan off?
the Animation or the Companies? and why?

for me the Animation
on eitherside Macross or Robotech
I like the stories! my top faves go like this
Macross plus
Robotech: do to the voice acting and the music
sdf macross do to it not being censord and the music
DYRL music the best!
Souther Cross
and mospeda!

I'm a fan of the original 85 and the unfinished series, the sentinels.

isamu wrote:

continued from last post

Inquiring minds wish to know... did you just not read the last post by SIGHUP, or do you just have faulty pattern recognition skills?

Also, could you please use a browser with spellcheck, like Firefox? Or if you've got it turned off, turn it back on? Your posts would be a lot easier to read if you took your time and made sure your spelling, grammar, and punctuation were at least passable. As it is, whenever I see one of your posts, the misspellings and whatnot leave me with an irresistible urge to reach for a decoder ring to see if there's a hidden message.


isamu wrote:

Robotech fan can mean anything!

In the words of the immortal Moot... "lol wut?"

The term "Robotech fan" can mean one and only one thing... that the person is a fan of Robotech in at least one of its various incarnations (TV, comics, novels, videogames, etc.). That's pretty much the limit of what it can be reasonably understood to mean. It certainly doesn't imply that you have to approve of Harmony Gold's less than ethically sound business practices, their recent, hamhanded attempts to milk the nearly-dead franchise for more money (Shadow Chronicles), or Tommy Yune's attempts to redefine the entire continuity to suit his personal tastes.


isamu wrote:

but to say "I" can do better! thats something that needs to be proven on! can you draw better? can you write a better story?
can you manage a franshize with thousands of fans who will eat you apart if you fail?! have you ever worked on something better? have you drawn something better? what have you accoplished in your life that better than there work!

And you know what, that's an asinine assertion, because it depends on subjective value judgments. You can't PROVE a subjective value judgment. This sort of argument is the last refuge of someone who can't cope with legitimate criticism.

The fact remains that Harmony Gold has done a pretty darn poor job managing the franchise, compared to virtually any other animated or sci-fi franchise. You can't deny the simple truth that it took them nearly 19 years to come up with the franchise's first viable sequel after a string of quite embarrassing failures brought about by circumstance and their poor understanding of their target demographic (Robotech: the Untold Story, Robotech II: the Sentinels, Robotech 3000). One could say the problem is that Harmony Gold is really little more than a distributor that occasionally daydreams about being a production company.


isamu wrote:

TOPIC: What are you a fan off?
the Animation or the Companies? and why?

There are several animation studios that I have a great deal of respect for, due to their long histories of high quality work... studios like GAINAX, Studio Nue, Sunrise, and Production I.G.. Each can claim a string of hit shows and several timeless classics.

Needless to say, I can't hold Harmony Gold USA in similar esteem, because they have accomplished almost nothing in the last 25 years. Harmony Gold's only noteworthy title, Robotech, is not even an original work. The only reason it exists at all is because the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series was too short to syndicate. The sequels are similarly unoriginal, relying entirely on either rewriting existing shows or building a new show out of set pieces from the pre-existing material. Their ONLY foray into originality was shot down as a weak cash-in attempt without shame. I can't say I like their business ethics either, especially considering their actions towards the Japanese Macross franchise. Nor does their giving the original "creative director" the boot fill me with enthusiasm.

So while I respect Robotech for, at the very least, its historical significance in the establishment of the US anime industry, I have no respect whatsoever for Harmony Gold.


For anime in general, I tend to be a fan of the animation, though there are isolated cases where I'm also a fan of a particular member of the creative staff, or a particular studio.

seto seto seto thanx
why do that? when I have you guys do my spell check for me! lol

these where my answers to zen! who asked me!
in which are my opinion!

Art has to do with alot, from concept and the way to to the final animation (you guys should know that)

why are they going to listen to someone who has no experiance in the field of animation and story! yeah you might think you know everything in Robotech/Macross but does that make you the one to go to?

of coarse HG may not be the best! but I cant go on to say that there the worst company, because they dont listen to you guys, for 20 years nothing came out! robotech 3000 was going to! but luckliy it didnt. then came Robotech the shadow chronicles! it was not best but something came out!

so you never know since there spying on your site, it might mean that there listening to your advice in secret, or there planning on something devious. one of the two lol

why do that? when I have you guys do my spell check for me! lol

You're right so I took the liberty of underlining your errors.

these where my answers to zen! who asked me!
in which are my opinion!

Yes, and I said I respected that opinion. Hell you'd know that if you read my reply at all.

Art has to do with alot, from concept and the way to to the final animation (you guys should know that)

yeah okay, so let me ask you this... could YOU do better?

why are they going to listen to someone who has no experiance in the field of animation and story! yeah you might think you know everything in Robotech/Macross but does that make you the one to go to?

They should listen to the fans, despite the lack of experience. Would they listen to you? You seem to think high and mighty of yourself.

of coarse HG may not be the best! but I cant go on to say that there the worst company, because they dont listen to you guys, for 20 years nothing came out! robotech 3000 was going to! but luckliy it didnt. then came Robotech the shadow chronicles! it was not best but something came out!

Yes, something came out, but the fact that it took that damn long is the problem. Also, the fact things were changed from the original series to fit the new continuity.

so you never know since there spying on your site, it might mean that there listening to your advice in secret, or there planning on something devious. one of the two lol

They aren't spying because they give a shit about our advice, they spy because they are determined to find out what negative things are being said about them. They have absolutely NO intention of viewing that site for constructive critical needs.

First of all, the art is very important. While I agree that story and characters are more important than art, art is a significant factor. For some people they are more interested in the art than the story. There needs to be an equal balance. I read a lot of manga and some American comic books. If the art sucks then sometimes I won't even bother to find out what the story is about. IF HG released a product with an amazing story, but really poor art it wouldn't do well. The first thing most people see about a series is the art. The art can tell a lot about a series. It can define if it's targeted towards males, females, children, adults, etc. It will give people an immediate impression and then they will decide to watch/read it or not.

I think I'm on the border about HG, so I don't feel like they did a terrible job, but I think they could have done better. It's not like they have unlimited amounts of money to pour into products that may or may not sell. I'm a realist. I've worked in the corporate world for two large entertainment companies, so I know what it's like dealing with corporate BS. It's not as easy as saying "Let's do this!" and it gets done. It's also not an excuse for a companies poor business and creative decisions.

Honestly, who is actually a fan of HG? O_o The thing is that HG is just the US publisher. Sure they're working on additional content, but they aren't the normal animation studio. I agree with Seto that you have companies like Gainex, Aniplex, Ghibli, and others that do their own original works. Those are the companies that you can truly be a fan of.

Seto- You said that you appreciate what Robotech has done for the US anime industry, but you didn't quite say weather you like Robotech or not. My question is if you consider yourself a Robotech fan or just a Macross fan?

HashiNoUsagi wrote:

Seto- You said that you appreciate what Robotech has done for the US anime industry, but you didn't quite say weather you like Robotech or not. My question is if you consider yourself a Robotech fan or just a Macross fan?

For reasons I can only guess at, I get asked this rather more than most.

First and foremost, I consider myself a Macross fan, though I do number myself among the Robotech fans as well on account of my fond memories of the "original 85" and my foolishly optimistic, frequently frustrated desire to see Robotech evolve beyond its origins as a hasty and haphazardly-executed combination of three unrelated shows.

I grew up on Robotech, but as I got older I discovered Macross and Mospeada. I still love RT, and support HG's products, but I prefer to see the series in their original formats first, and now in RT second, with the exception of Southern Cross. And the only Macross spin offs Ive found to really like are Macross Zero. So what does that make me?

And the only Macross spin offs Ive found to really like are Macross Zero. So what does that make me?

A FAN

I LOVED THE ORIGINAL 85 EPISODES OF ROBOTECH AND ART.

SENTINELS NOT THAT MUCH AND DID NOT LIKE THE ART OR THE MUSIC. AND NOT EVEN RT 3000 (YEAH, THERE FANS OUT THERE). THE STORY OF BATTLE CRY AND ART I REALLY ENJOYED BUT NOT TO WELL WITH NEW GEN. ART FOR NEW GEN WAS GOOD.

SHADOW CHRONICLES I LIKED BUT NEED IMPROVEMENT. STILL A WAIT AND SEE FOR ME. IF IT HAD TOMMY'S ART AND COLORS THEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DESIRABLE FOR ME.

I'm a fan of the company, not the animation... Now what happens?