by the fans for the fans

MaverickLSC wrote:

Gubaba wrote;

Giant battleships that turn into robots, planes that turn into robots, pop singers saving mankind, all framed around a love story...what's not "high concept" about that?

Actually rhade and JRG Jupiter Div have the definition spot on, you can actually read about it on this thread here;

www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2140221&forumid=8

SIGHUP wrote;

What makes Robotech 'High Concept' is that it was directly derived from Macross.

While SDF Macross in itself is considered 'High Concept', so are the other two series in their original form. However, Robotech too is considered 'High Concept' because Robotechs story differs greatly from SDF Macross in one key element.

That is the nature and definition of 'Protoculture' which is vastly different between these two series.

When I think of SDF Macross, I think of 'Inherit the Stars' written by James P. Hogan because the nature of humanity having its roots come from elsewhere besides the earth sound eriely familiar to the Protoculture which created both the Supervision Army and the Zentraedi as well as seeding the earth with the sub-protoculture humanity.

When I think of Robotech, I agree with Memos premise that it's similar to Frank Herberts 'Dune' because the story element of 'Spice' which is a valuable resource and commodity wanted by many advanced civilizations, but is only found on the desert planet of Dune is also familiar to Robotechs story element of the nature 'Protoculture'. Which too is a valuable resource and commodity that by the time we reach established timeline in 'New Generation', the earth is the only planet left which has this resource that is wanted by many advanced civilizations.

Both Robotech and SDF Macross are 'High Concept'. But in what degree, they are both vastly different to one another.

It's why I see both shows as being completely different to one another on so many levels.

Humanity and Zentraedis ancestors versus rare but powerful energy source, completely different.

Mav...

Oh please...what Robotech is is Macross, combined with two series that are copying Macross, plus some ideas from Carl Macek that derive from Dune...

...but really, what gets people INTO Robotech? I can guarantee you it's not Macek's original concept.

What matters isn't what he changed (cutting out "Dana's" shower scenes, switching around episode of Southern Cross and all that)...

...but what he DIDN'T change: people dying, including major characters; an episodic forumula by which fans had to watch EVERY episode in order to follow the story, etc.

This is what made Robotech "high concept" and memorable...and this is what was retained from the three original series.

Macek's own concepts (Protoculture "shapings," characters becoming their own grandparents in a time loop, and so on) have largely been rejected by Robotech fans.

And, as usual...as soon as I post... Maverick LSC runs away.

Too bad, so sad, etc.

I'm sure there is a proper "Mav" explanation about this behavior... maybe he went to his special place in order to come out with a well thought explanation

Gubaba wrote:

Oh please...what Robotech is is Macross, combined with two series that are copying Macross, plus some ideas from Carl Macek that derive from Dune...

...but really, what gets people INTO Robotech? I can guarantee you it's not Macek's original concept.

What matters isn't what he changed (cutting out "Dana's" shower scenes, switching around episode of Southern Cross and all that)...

...but what he DIDN'T change: people dying, including major characters; an episodic forumula by which fans had to watch EVERY episode in order to follow the story, etc.

This is what made Robotech "high concept" and memorable...and this is what was retained from the three original series.

Macek's own concepts (Protoculture "shapings," characters becoming their own grandparents in a time loop, and so on) have largely been rejected by Robotech fans.

You know, this is precisely what Macek felt in the beginning. He even goes as far as writing in Artbook 3 that Robotech's success was in big part because of the original japanese material.

Waters7 wrote:

You know, this is precisely what Macek felt in the beginning. He even goes as far as writing in Artbook 3 that Robotech's success was in big part because of the original japanese material.

No offense, man, but DUH!

Does anyone think that Star Wars was a hit in other countries because the TRANSLATOR and/or EDITOR was talented...? No, they credit George Lucas and his team for making a great movie in the first place.

It'd be like saying, "Oh, Harry Potter was a hit in Mexico only because Adolpho Muñoz Garcia is a visionary! Who's J.K. Rowling...?"

And only an idiot would say that.

Gubaba wrote:

Waters7 wrote:

You know, this is precisely what Macek felt in the beginning. He even goes as far as writing in Artbook 3 that Robotech's success was in big part because of the original japanese material.

No offense, man, but DUH!

None taken, the thing is, with some Robotech fans (specially the so called Hardcore), this is not true. And they will argue how Macek's changes made the portion related to SDF Macross better or how he improved upon the work of Studio Nue & Artland. I have yet to see a concise example of this, all I can find are arguments based on personal preferences (i.e. watching a tv show dubbed vs subtitlted)

Does anyone think that Star Wars was a hit in other countries because the TRANSLATOR and/or EDITOR was talented...? No, they credit George Lucas and his team for making a great movie in the first place.

It'd be like saying, "Oh, Harry Potter was a hit in Mexico only because Adolpho Muñoz Garcia is a visionary! Who's J.K. Rowling...?"

And only an idiot would say that.

That will be Adolfo
I truly feel that the work done by Robotech's voice actors is overrated (in particular, the spanish actors). In some instances, i've seen fans argue how Gregory Snegoff is one of the creators of Robotech
I wonder exactly what part of Robotech was he responsible of "creating"

Regards

Waters7 wrote:

That will be Adolfo

Uff!


Waters7 wrote:

I truly feel that the work done by Robotech's voice actors is overrated (in particular, the spanish actors). In some instances, i've seen fans argue how Gregory Snegoff is one of the creators of Robotech
I wonder exactly what part of Robotech was he responsible of "creating"

Regards

Well... he was also one of the scriptwriters, if I'm not mistaken.

But actually, I haven't heard the Spanish version, but I thought the English Robotech voice work was pretty good. Better than a lot of anime in English, that's for sure.

Gubaba wrote:

Well... he was also one of the scriptwriters, if I'm not mistaken.

But actually, I haven't heard the Spanish version, but I thought the English Robotech voice work was pretty good. Better than a lot of anime in English, that's for sure.

Yes, that I know, but again, what episodes did he work on?
You see, the key people that worked in SDF Macross have always been honest about their contributions to the series whereas people like Greg will take the title of "creator" and run with it without really providing info as to what he created.
Part of this, I blame it on the hardcore fans but then again, some one that is honest about his work, will always clear things up. I don't see this honesty in Greg.

As far as the voice acting go, I agree, the english dub of Robotech was well done but as you said it before, can we take this and use it as an example of Robotech being an improvement of Macross? Only an idiot will say that

Regards..

Waters7 wrote:

Yes, that I know, but again, what episodes did he work on?
You see, the key people that worked in SDF Macross have always been honest about their contributions to the series whereas people like Greg will take the title of "creator" and run with it without really providing info as to what he created.
Part of this, I blame it on the hardcore fans but then again, some one that is honest about his work, will always clear things up. I don't see this honesty in Greg.

If someone would ask him, I think he'd answer honestly. He seems like a decent enough guy.

Waters7 wrote:

As far as the voice acting go, I agree, the english dub of Robotech was well done but as you said it before, can we take this and use it as an example of Robotech being an improvement of Macross? Only an idiot will say that

Regards..

No disagreement here. Saludos!

Gubaba wrote;

Oh please...what Robotech is is Macross, combined with two series that are copying Macross, plus some ideas from Carl Macek that derive from Dune...

What are you talking about Gubaba? Superdimension Fortress Macross was in development at the same time as Superdimension Chivary Southern Cross. How is that copying when they're both were part of the Superdimension mech series which included Orguss in Japan.

Didnt' you see the Orguss mech cameo in Macross or the close resemblance between the characters found in both Orguss and Macross?

In fact Macross was being developed to capitalized on the success of Mobile Suit Gundam. Nothing from SDF Macross is original at all except for the idol singing.

Anyway, I respect your opinion Gubaba, but the facts are that the way Carl Macek crafted Robotech is truely original and unique, it doesnt' make the contributions of SDF Macross any less.

It just makes them different.

Mav...